KOOK
03-23-2009, 03:58 PM
This will get confusing but I will do my best to explain first things first all the words mean different things and have meant different things throughout history. Left and Right change depending on what thing you are basing left and right from. Liberal and conservative mean different thngs at different times. “Progressive” in the United States has almost always meant what the rest of the world would call “Socialist” at the least and probably “Fascist” at most.
Think of the Ideas or Ideaologies as Products. Think of the Labels as the Brand Name. Politicians change the brand name to sell the product when the brand name loses favor among the customers (citizens/voters/subjects). Socialism is the root ideology, When The Communist Manifesto was written what it described was what we call Socialism. Fascism, Communism (bolshevism), and Nazism are all just the different brands of what Marx and others have formulated. They were the chemists coming up with the secret incredients for their product.
To put it another way, Socialism is a Soft Drink. Cocal Cola was the original soft drink, and Coca Cola is the brand. Pepsi is another Brand of soft drink, tastes similar, but is different. RC cola is another soft drink, and still tastes like cola, but is still another brand. Now what would happen if for some reason the word Pepsi became associated with something that the public didnt like (you know some sort of marketing disaster or giant recall)... do you think that Pepsi would try to rebrand itself as something else? Like Zap cola? The product didnt change...just the name. Pepsi, Coke, and RC are all Colas and are somewhat interchangeable, but are all slightly different. Well in the U.S. political world the favorite brand is Sam's Choice Cola, still a cola, but slightly different from Pepsi, Coke, and RC. We have called it Liberalism and Progressivism, generally it is sold by Democrats. And it is basically another variety of Socialism.
During the French revolution the people who sat on the left side of the legislative chamber were classical liberals they believed in small governmentt, power to the people, etc. basically everything we think of as Conservative now. During this time Conservative meant keeping things mostly as they were in France back then (Monarchy). Therefore the American Revolution was a classical liberal revolution but was not violent like the french revolution which used more or less socialist fear politics to achieve its’ goals.
Unlike the old Eurpoean nations the United States did not/does not have “class based” political parties. There was not the Labor Party and the Conservative Party. We do not have a house of Lords and House of Commons (although I think everyone in our Governemnt thinks they are Lords) There were the Federalists, Whig, and Republican party which liked the rule by the British and were therefore conservative or for the staus quo of the United States at that time. For the most part prior to the Revolution our country was a classically liberal economically (free market) but socially conservative. This would have been considered Liberal back then because for the most part Conservatives back then sided with the Crown (British Rule).
Thomas Jefferson was part of a political party called the Democratic Republican and so in this sense both current parties go back to Jefferson . Then this party split and the Republican part renamed itself the Whig party to evoke feelings of the american revolution which would have been considered a Conservative position by this time but was still for classically liberal in the sense it favored small government and a free economy. The Whigs believed in preservation of the union and strict interpretation of the constitution. This is the first party that appealed to ordinary voters and others as well. This party sort of dissolved over the issue of slavery and the anti slavery crowd moved to the new Republican party also called the Grand Old Party or GOP. The pro slave folks moved to the Democrat party. At this time the Democrat party was more socially conservative which at that time meant conserving slavery and was more or less the party of rich white men.
In the 1890s both parties realigned and Republicans became fiscally conservative, pro big business and for strong foreign policy.
During the early twentieth century Republicans became more like Progressives (meaning they were enamored of the Bolshevik Revolution and or Italian Fascism). Meaning that both parties in the U.S. at the time favored some sort of Socialism.
Progressive is basically then and now the american brand of european socialism. actually it sought a "Third Way" (a huge buzzword of Italian fascism) between being liberal (in the classical sense) and conservative (in the tradition of the old right) . Heard of this lately? "we need to put behind us the politics of the past, no more democrat or Republican. Into a new era of Bipartisanship" That would be our new President. That is another problem, if you do not know the playbook he is reading from you do not know what that statement means. It is almost like he talks in code.
Many in the early 1900s were enamored with the idea of Progessivism and Woodrow Wilson was more Liberal in the 21st century definition than anyone with the exception of Barack Obama. Wilson was actually inspirational to Mussolini. Read that again. Benito Mussolini looked up and admired Woodrow Wilson.
The communist revolution in 1917 scared both parties (Republicans and Democrats) but neither really ran toward classical liberalism, laissez faire free market ideas. BOTH moved Left but the Democrats moved further left and so the label "Left" was describing who was nearly Communist or and "Right" described and who was merely almost Fascist. TADA! this is where we have got the misinformed view that Fascism is a Rightwing philosophy!
During the 1920s the Republicans were: pro big business, for government regulation, and the Democrats were more for labor and farming but neither party was laissez faire or classical Liberal economically. Meaning anyone who identifies themselves as conservative today would have thought there were no differences between Democrats and Republicans back then. Really the parties were split more on a North-South basis, or maybe a split along class lines.
Herbert Hoover freely called himself a "Progessive" (the US brand of Socialism) Republican. But becasue the country was in a depression the public opinion turned against him and a Democrat candidate (FDR) was elected. FDR did not like the term "Progrssive" because he thought "Liberal" had a more historically palatable ring to it among US citizens but he was at least as Progressive or more so than Hoover. So in the 30s-40s the choice voters had was between Northern Big Government Leftists (Republicans) or Southern working Man Leftists (Democrats).
In the south there were still Democrats who were anti New Deal and anti FDR and they joined with the Libertarians and the old Fiscally and Socially Conservative Right to create the Conservative Coalition.
Meanwhile Northern Republicans who liked New Deal Politics joined the Democrats.
So the liberals became what we NOW call the Left or Liberals today which are increasingly calling themselves Progressives again.
And, what became the Neo-Conservative movement which is Classical Liberal with regard to government and Fiscally Conservative and Socially Conservative or even Libertarian leaning when it comes to Social Issues and EVENTUALLY turned into what Reagan, and Sean Hannity, and Rush Limbaugh and I came to love.
Confusing ain't it?
Think of the Ideas or Ideaologies as Products. Think of the Labels as the Brand Name. Politicians change the brand name to sell the product when the brand name loses favor among the customers (citizens/voters/subjects). Socialism is the root ideology, When The Communist Manifesto was written what it described was what we call Socialism. Fascism, Communism (bolshevism), and Nazism are all just the different brands of what Marx and others have formulated. They were the chemists coming up with the secret incredients for their product.
To put it another way, Socialism is a Soft Drink. Cocal Cola was the original soft drink, and Coca Cola is the brand. Pepsi is another Brand of soft drink, tastes similar, but is different. RC cola is another soft drink, and still tastes like cola, but is still another brand. Now what would happen if for some reason the word Pepsi became associated with something that the public didnt like (you know some sort of marketing disaster or giant recall)... do you think that Pepsi would try to rebrand itself as something else? Like Zap cola? The product didnt change...just the name. Pepsi, Coke, and RC are all Colas and are somewhat interchangeable, but are all slightly different. Well in the U.S. political world the favorite brand is Sam's Choice Cola, still a cola, but slightly different from Pepsi, Coke, and RC. We have called it Liberalism and Progressivism, generally it is sold by Democrats. And it is basically another variety of Socialism.
During the French revolution the people who sat on the left side of the legislative chamber were classical liberals they believed in small governmentt, power to the people, etc. basically everything we think of as Conservative now. During this time Conservative meant keeping things mostly as they were in France back then (Monarchy). Therefore the American Revolution was a classical liberal revolution but was not violent like the french revolution which used more or less socialist fear politics to achieve its’ goals.
Unlike the old Eurpoean nations the United States did not/does not have “class based” political parties. There was not the Labor Party and the Conservative Party. We do not have a house of Lords and House of Commons (although I think everyone in our Governemnt thinks they are Lords) There were the Federalists, Whig, and Republican party which liked the rule by the British and were therefore conservative or for the staus quo of the United States at that time. For the most part prior to the Revolution our country was a classically liberal economically (free market) but socially conservative. This would have been considered Liberal back then because for the most part Conservatives back then sided with the Crown (British Rule).
Thomas Jefferson was part of a political party called the Democratic Republican and so in this sense both current parties go back to Jefferson . Then this party split and the Republican part renamed itself the Whig party to evoke feelings of the american revolution which would have been considered a Conservative position by this time but was still for classically liberal in the sense it favored small government and a free economy. The Whigs believed in preservation of the union and strict interpretation of the constitution. This is the first party that appealed to ordinary voters and others as well. This party sort of dissolved over the issue of slavery and the anti slavery crowd moved to the new Republican party also called the Grand Old Party or GOP. The pro slave folks moved to the Democrat party. At this time the Democrat party was more socially conservative which at that time meant conserving slavery and was more or less the party of rich white men.
In the 1890s both parties realigned and Republicans became fiscally conservative, pro big business and for strong foreign policy.
During the early twentieth century Republicans became more like Progressives (meaning they were enamored of the Bolshevik Revolution and or Italian Fascism). Meaning that both parties in the U.S. at the time favored some sort of Socialism.
Progressive is basically then and now the american brand of european socialism. actually it sought a "Third Way" (a huge buzzword of Italian fascism) between being liberal (in the classical sense) and conservative (in the tradition of the old right) . Heard of this lately? "we need to put behind us the politics of the past, no more democrat or Republican. Into a new era of Bipartisanship" That would be our new President. That is another problem, if you do not know the playbook he is reading from you do not know what that statement means. It is almost like he talks in code.
Many in the early 1900s were enamored with the idea of Progessivism and Woodrow Wilson was more Liberal in the 21st century definition than anyone with the exception of Barack Obama. Wilson was actually inspirational to Mussolini. Read that again. Benito Mussolini looked up and admired Woodrow Wilson.
The communist revolution in 1917 scared both parties (Republicans and Democrats) but neither really ran toward classical liberalism, laissez faire free market ideas. BOTH moved Left but the Democrats moved further left and so the label "Left" was describing who was nearly Communist or and "Right" described and who was merely almost Fascist. TADA! this is where we have got the misinformed view that Fascism is a Rightwing philosophy!
During the 1920s the Republicans were: pro big business, for government regulation, and the Democrats were more for labor and farming but neither party was laissez faire or classical Liberal economically. Meaning anyone who identifies themselves as conservative today would have thought there were no differences between Democrats and Republicans back then. Really the parties were split more on a North-South basis, or maybe a split along class lines.
Herbert Hoover freely called himself a "Progessive" (the US brand of Socialism) Republican. But becasue the country was in a depression the public opinion turned against him and a Democrat candidate (FDR) was elected. FDR did not like the term "Progrssive" because he thought "Liberal" had a more historically palatable ring to it among US citizens but he was at least as Progressive or more so than Hoover. So in the 30s-40s the choice voters had was between Northern Big Government Leftists (Republicans) or Southern working Man Leftists (Democrats).
In the south there were still Democrats who were anti New Deal and anti FDR and they joined with the Libertarians and the old Fiscally and Socially Conservative Right to create the Conservative Coalition.
Meanwhile Northern Republicans who liked New Deal Politics joined the Democrats.
So the liberals became what we NOW call the Left or Liberals today which are increasingly calling themselves Progressives again.
And, what became the Neo-Conservative movement which is Classical Liberal with regard to government and Fiscally Conservative and Socially Conservative or even Libertarian leaning when it comes to Social Issues and EVENTUALLY turned into what Reagan, and Sean Hannity, and Rush Limbaugh and I came to love.
Confusing ain't it?